# Bending the Universe in Your Favor | Claire Vo  ## Metadata - Author: [[Lenny's Podcast: Product | Growth | Career]] - Full Title: Bending the Universe in Your Favor | Claire Vo - Category: #podcasts - URL: https://share.snipd.com/episode/032dd5bd-ab9d-4da0-bd95-29dfe6e673b1 ## Highlights - Episode AI notes 1. Passion and curiosity are essential for accelerating career growth in product management. 2. Being clear about career goals and effectively communicating them to superiors is crucial for advancement within an organization. 3. Balance ambition and self-advocacy to drive career growth, focus on solving problems for the company rather than just seeking personal growth. 4. Identify your zone of genius and leverage your strengths for personal and organizational success. 5. Setting high pace expectations, maintaining startup focus in larger companies, and having a personal SLA can enhance productivity and efficiency. 6. Provide clear and kind feedback in performance management to foster growth and improvement. 7. Fostering diverse voices in technology leadership challenges traditional stereotypes and promotes inclusivity in the tech industry. 8. Being scrappy and resourceful is key for success in entrepreneurship. 9. Unified leadership for product, engineering, and design functions under a single leadership streamlines R&D investment and enhances accountability. 10. Value autonomous travel experiences like those provided by Waymo and prioritize fast decision-making and execution for success. ([Time 0:00:00](https://share.snipd.com/episode-takeaways/c5bdd2c2-f80a-48cd-a432-0fd10ba4fd11)) - Passion and Curiosity Propel Career Growth Summary: The key to progressing quickly in a product management career is to have a deep passion for building, coupled with curiosity. Finding joy and fun in the work you do accelerates career growth, allowing individuals to move up the ranks swiftly and successfully. Transcript: Speaker 1 And it's okay if you don't. It's a privilege and a pleasure, and I'm glad I'm here. I've been so impressed with your guests and your content. It's been so exciting to see just the wide range of product leaders and thinkers in this space. And if I can be on the list of product leaders and thinkers in this space, then I'm doing something good. So thanks for having me. It's absolutely my pleasure. I want to start by talking about career advice. Okay, so I was producing your LinkedIn and your career path is basically what most PMs probably dream of in their career. So just to summarize you and from associate product manager to product manager to senior product manager to director to senior director to VP to SVP to chief product officer. And I've been chief product officer to three different companies. And along the way, you're a founder, you're a designer, you're an engineer. So here's my question. If you have to boil down what you think your secret sauce has been to progressing so far and so quickly throughout your PM career, what might that be? Yeah, so when you list it all out, you can probably guess underneath it all is like a relentlessly curious, impatient, eager to build person at their core. So I just like building stuff and I find a lot of fun. And I think if you find a career or craft that's fun, it's easy to accelerate your growth in that career. ([Time 0:04:30](https://share.snipd.com/snip/1dbde075-6da0-446a-89fd-7a9bb622783d)) - Passion and Clarity Drive Career Growth Summary: Finding joy in your career and being clear about your goals are key drivers for career growth. By identifying what you want from your career and effectively communicating it to your superiors, you can pave the way for advancement within your chosen field. Transcript: Speaker 1 Yeah, so when you list it all out, you can probably guess underneath it all is like a relentlessly curious, impatient, eager to build person at their core. So I just like building stuff and I find a lot of fun. And I think if you find a career or craft that's fun, it's easy to accelerate your growth in that career. And I think I just love what I do. But when it comes to career growth and that progression from, actually started as a copywriter of all things, copywriter all the way up to CPO or CPTO that runs an engineering organization, It boils down to something really simple, which is know what you want out of your career. So I think it's really easy to get your career and ask for it and then make it easy for your boss or whoever can support or champion you to get you from here to there. ([Time 0:05:33](https://share.snipd.com/snip/90fd9ec7-5b43-425f-94a2-08827109cc53)) - Passion and Clarity Drive Career Growth Summary: The key to career growth is rooted in passion and clarity. Embracing a career that is enjoyable facilitates accelerated growth. Knowing one's career goals and effectively communicating them to those who can support and advocate for advancement is essential for progressing from one role to another within an organization. Transcript: Speaker 1 Yeah, so when you list it all out, you can probably guess underneath it all is like a relentlessly curious, impatient, eager to build person at their core. So I just like building stuff and I find a lot of fun. And I think if you find a career or craft that's fun, it's easy to accelerate your growth in that career. And I think I just love what I do. But when it comes to career growth and that progression from, actually started as a copywriter of all things, copywriter all the way up to CPO or CPTO that runs an engineering organization, It boils down to something really simple, which is know what you want out of your career. So I think it's really easy to get your career and ask for it and then make it easy for your boss or whoever can support or champion you to get you from here to there. ([Time 0:05:33](https://share.snipd.com/snip/fae9a95f-e0b0-4464-83cd-c7f7ead7b744)) - Driving Career Growth and Progression Summary: Career growth and progression in one's professional journey is a result of knowing precisely what one wants. It involves articulating career aspirations clearly, making it easy for superiors to support and champion them. By proactively identifying opportunities like filling in a vacant leadership role and presenting a detailed plan outlining the benefits and strategies for organizational improvement, individuals can effectively steer their career trajectory and secure desired positions. Transcript: Speaker 1 But when it comes to career growth and that progression from, actually started as a copywriter of all things, copywriter all the way up to CPO or CPTO that runs an engineering organization, It boils down to something really simple, which is know what you want out of your career. So I think it's really easy to get your career and ask for it and then make it easy for your boss or whoever can support or champion you to get you from here to there. And so I'll take a really specific example from earlier in my career where I'd been in management for design and product management, and I was a manager level over product and design At any commerce company and worked very closely with growth and marketing. We were just two sides of the same coin and worked very closely and the head of marketing left. And there was this big to do, you know, pretty quickly, I'm like, well, what are we going to do with marketing and do we need to hire somebody? And I sat for about a half a day and I thought, I think I can help here, drew out an org chart, put my name on the top, walked into my boss's office and said, this is one potential solve of your Marketing organization question. This will bring product and marketing growth together. I can be in this position. Here's how I change the management structure underneath. It's not just where you put me, but where you put everybody else. And I think this could work for the company. And this is how I'd suggest we roll it out. This could be my JD. And I got that job. And, you know, I think when people ask me about career advice, they want to hear, you know, what can I do? Really, like, what do you want? And how do you make it as easy as possible to make the case to your boss to get you here to there? The other thing that I give people advice about is know what you want ([Time 0:05:56](https://share.snipd.com/snip/170ba31f-5d8d-4207-a7c1-b51f5b5df997)) - Being Clear About Career Goals Summary: Being clear about career aspirations and articulating them effectively to superiors is crucial for professional growth. It involves understanding the desired next role, outlining the steps to reach there, and seeking support from leaders. However, it is essential to strike a balance and not solely focus on promotion while also considering the current role's responsibilities. Transcript: Speaker 1 This will bring product and marketing growth together. I can be in this position. Here's how I change the management structure underneath. It's not just where you put me, but where you put everybody else. And I think this could work for the company. And this is how I'd suggest we roll it out. This could be my JD. And I got that job. And, you know, I think when people ask me about career advice, they want to hear, you know, what can I do? Really, like, what do you want? And how do you make it as easy as possible to make the case to your boss to get you here to there? The other thing that I give people advice about is know what you want out of your current role and know exactly what you want your next role to be. And I even know this and I even say this to my boss, you know, when I was VP of product adoptimously, I said to my boss, I want to be a chief product officer. Here's how I'm going to get us here to there. And I want you to partner with me on it. And even coming into this role when I was interviewing at LaunchDarkly, you know, my boss Dan, this year, LaunchDarkly asked me, what do you want out of this role? And I said, I want my next role to be a CEO role. So I want this role to fill in my gaps, learn, help me elevate my, you know, my experience to get me to that next step. And so I always know what that next role is going to be and I'm always clear about it. Now, I think there's a fine balance here. There's one thing to be very clear about your goals. It's another to suck the oxygen out of the air about only talking about getting promoted. ([Time 0:07:04](https://share.snipd.com/snip/984e0013-365a-42c5-9c53-e739f089ce0a)) - Drive Career Growth with Ambition and Self-Advocacy Summary: To succeed in managing your career, balance ambition and assertiveness, advocate for yourself, and produce quality work. Clearly define your career goals to avoid being pushed in undesired directions. Communicate your aspirations and actively pursue them to achieve career growth. Transcript: Speaker 1 And so as somebody that's managing their own career, you have to be a balance of ambitious and assertive and take care of yourself and advocate for yourself. And the work needs to speak for itself at the end of the day. And that's what's going to drive for your career growth. And so know what you want, but do the work and produce the results and you can have a career like mine. So maybe first to summarize some of the core advice you're sharing is know what you actually want because you're not going to progress towards this amazing future career. If you don't actually know where you're going, otherwise you'll kind of be pushed in directions that you're not necessarily interested in going. So have a sense where you want to go to tell people and ask for it. ([Time 0:08:58](https://share.snipd.com/snip/c934d2d3-810f-4fa5-a531-0d912487afb9)) - Focus on solving problems for the company, not just seeking career growth Summary: When aiming for a promotion, individuals need to consider how they can solve problems and add value to the company rather than just focusing on personal career growth. With the evolving structure and size of organizations, especially in product teams that are naturally small, opportunities for promotions are limited. To advance in managerial roles, individuals must showcase their capabilities in organization design. It is crucial to emphasize why a role is beneficial for the company and how one is the ideal fit for that position. Prioritizing solving problems for the manager and the business demonstrates proactive thinking and adds more value than solely emphasizing personal career aspirations. Transcript: Speaker 1 And I think I'm good for this position because of what I've proven, A, B, and C. That's solving a problem for the company. That's not solving a career growth issue for an individual. And I think, you know, people who want to be promoted need to think of that orientation versus the other because, honestly, especially now, like, let's, let's say, post-zerp. Like, there are not just these wrote every 12 months. We're going to give comp increases and merit increases and you get to be promoted. We really have to be thoughtful about the structure and size and organization of teams. Product teams are naturally pretty small. So there aren't just management and just in director and senior director roles to go around. And if you want to get into a management, for example, you have to prove that you're good at organization design. So I think really focus on why a role is good for a company or necessary for a company and then why you are the best for that role rather than I want to get promoted. Let us such good advice and such important advice that focus on how do you solve problems for your manager and the business? Not, hey, here's what I need for my career. The socks, my career stagnating. I love that. And I love so much of your message as empowerment. It's not just here. ([Time 0:11:38](https://share.snipd.com/snip/bd2eda60-12ee-474c-ad0a-ac45a37dd4a8)) - Seizing Opportunities and Showing Confidence in Solving Problems Summary: Empower yourself by actively searching for ways to contribute to your organization, propose solutions at the right time, and demonstrate confidence in your ability to solve critical business problems. By identifying important issues, having confidence in your skills, and taking the initiative to offer solutions, you can lead teams, drive organizational growth, and make a substantial impact on the business. Transcript: Speaker 1 And I love so much of your message as empowerment. It's not just here. There's the place you're in and there's not a lot you can do about it. Look for opportunities to help your manager, help your business. Here's what I can do to move things further. And I think there's an amount of timing that you touched on. Like, propose this at that time when something could happen. Like, you shared this example of there was a marketing gap. Yeah. Yep. Exactly. Is there another example where you did the sort of thing where you kind of presented? Here's how I can help the organ that helped another promotion. If not, that's great. I mean, it's honestly how I expanded into leading engineering teams in the technology organization. I was at color and there was a real need to up level our engineering organization. And I knew exactly what to do. I had high confidence. I had the skills, both technical and organizational to scale the engineering organization in a way that was really critical to the business, both from a architecture perspective And from a team and talent perspective. And so that was one where I knew there was a problem to solve. I knew that problem was important. I knew we had to solve it fast. And I was confident. I knew I could do it. I had confidence that I could help there. And so I'm still doing it today. And, you know, at color I did, I took a CIMINIS product. I very quickly began leading the engineering organization, which was fabulous. ([Time 0:12:53](https://share.snipd.com/snip/d4e45fd7-a689-4c72-8a1e-933ce65ad05b)) - Career Growth and Organizational Flexibility Summary: Exploring different opportunities helps in understanding personal interests and aspirations. Organizations are malleable, especially in startup and growth companies, and can be restructured around talented individuals. It is crucial to view the organization as adaptable and capable of evolving over time, particularly around highly motivated individuals. When considering career growth, it is important to think like an organizational design thinker by proposing solutions that align with personal ambitions and benefit both the organization and oneself. Transcript: Speaker 1 And trying these sorts of things often helps you understand, okay, here's what I'm actually excited about. Maybe I want to move into design. Yeah. And one of the other things that I think people don't understand, and maybe I expect to be a part of the project. And maybe I experienced this as a founder and I really feel it inside companies is like, the universe is bendable to your will. And what I mean is in most, at least in the stage I operate in and startups and growth stage companies and, you know, late stage startups. Organizations are very fluid. And I like to organize around talented, motivated individuals. And so just because we're organized in a particular way now, just because these organizations are separate or these are different, you know, together. Doesn't mean that's necessarily the way they have to be. And so you should think about your career growth in the existing structure of the organization. But as an org design thinker, that's very important job that I have to do. You also have to think of this system as a living, breathing, you know, entity that can shift over time in particular around highly motivated, highly talented people. And I think along the same lines referencing this advice you've already shared, just thinking from the perspective of what is my manager and folks above? What are they struggling with and how can I propose? Here's a solution that happens to also have me move into a more interesting role. ([Time 0:15:24](https://share.snipd.com/snip/adf96fa1-5e5f-45df-862d-f78b392d21eb)) - Embrace Your Zone of Genius Summary: View the system as a dynamic entity that evolves over time, especially around talented individuals. Understand what challenges your superiors face and propose solutions that align with your growth. Beware of taking on too much and not operating in your zone of genius. Focus on leveraging your strengths and exceptional abilities to benefit both yourself and the organization. Transcript: Speaker 1 You also have to think of this system as a living, breathing, you know, entity that can shift over time in particular around highly motivated, highly talented people. And I think along the same lines referencing this advice you've already shared, just thinking from the perspective of what is my manager and folks above? What are they struggling with and how can I propose? Here's a solution that happens to also have me move into a more interesting role. Yeah, exactly. There's a direction I wasn't planning to go into, but I think it's really important and interesting is people like you that are incredibly good and successful end up taking on a lot. And that often ends up not being what they want. So, yes. Exactly. And you'd vice on, you know, like the classic, be careful what you're good at advice. And you'd vice on just how to not end up with everything. I really believe operating in your zone of genius. I really believe in leaning into strengths. And, you know, if you were in a position in which you're good at things and you've been giving a lot of responsibility, but you have tremendous growth edges and you're spending more time On the things you need to level up than the things you are exceptional at. I think that's not fair for the organization. I think that's not fair for you. So, I truly believe defining and understanding your zone of genius, where you are exceptional, where no one else can step into the job and do ([Time 0:16:19](https://share.snipd.com/snip/171d4817-1756-4dd3-af21-031c613c1f77)) - Promote slowly, be self-aware, and preserve builder time Summary: It is crucial to promote individuals slowly rather than quickly to prevent putting them in roles where they are ineffective and unhappy. Being self-aware as a manager about the impact of promotions is essential for the team's success. Maintaining personal productivity requires staying in one's 'zone of genius' by managing responsibilities and ensuring time for producing real work through effective calendar and time management. Transcript: Speaker 1 And, you know, can you show up every day energized and engaged and excited about what you do. And I think being very aware, if you were operating the space or if you're not, and this might go back to, I think, I have never regretted promoting somebody too slowly. I've been promoted to promoting somebody too quickly. In that, you know, high slope individuals in particular areas want to get more responsibility, quote unquote, want to have more scope. And I've seen sort of less experienced managers or directors or even people at my level want to give opportunities that put people in a position where they're not, they're neither effective Nor happy. And so I think being self aware of that is really important. And then I also think as a manager being cognizant of that is really important individually. I do do a lot, but I do feel like I'm in my zone of genius. And I also know that part of staying in my personal zone of genius is having this breadth of responsibility, but preserving builder time. And what I mean from builder time is like, I have to have time to produce real work. That is, that comes from me as an individual. And that means that calendar management is quite important. Time management. We're going to talk about some of the things that you built. ([Time 0:17:57](https://share.snipd.com/snip/8574d0cc-fd45-4c72-8cdf-881745e62ea5)) - Finding Your Zone of Genius Summary: Being self-aware and cognizant of one's zone of genius is crucial, especially for managers. It is essential to have a breadth of responsibility while preserving builder time to produce real work. Effective calendar and time management are key to staying in the zone of genius. A tactic to identify your zone of genius is to categorize your activities based on whether you hate, don't love, love, or would prefer to spend all your time on them. This process helps in recognizing activities that align with your zone of genius. Transcript: Speaker 1 And so I think being self aware of that is really important. And then I also think as a manager being cognizant of that is really important individually. I do do a lot, but I do feel like I'm in my zone of genius. And I also know that part of staying in my personal zone of genius is having this breadth of responsibility, but preserving builder time. And what I mean from builder time is like, I have to have time to produce real work. That is, that comes from me as an individual. And that means that calendar management is quite important. Time management. We're going to talk about some of the things that you built. In terms of finding your zone of genius, any advice for someone that's trying to figure out what it is that is in that zone of genius. And there's like a TED talk of here's how to think about the zone of genius specifically. Speaker 2 Yeah. Speaker 1 I'm not going to, I'm not going to relay it in precision, but one of the tactics that I've seen out there is basically go through your calendar for the last month or quarter, whatever it Is, write everything down and basically group them into. Speaker 2 I hated doing this. Speaker 1 I didn't love doing it, but it was fine. I love doing this. And then like, I love doing this. And if I could spend all my time on this, I would be the happiest person in the whole world and like literally categorize your, your, the way you're spending your time into those buckets. ([Time 0:18:41](https://share.snipd.com/snip/1b15db4d-e124-4697-8188-124f9f48d19e)) - Finding Passion and Value Through Time Allocation Summary: Reflect on your recent activities to categorize them as 'hated', 'fine', 'loved', and 'passionate'. Focus on the activities you love the most and aim to spend more time on them to add value and tap into your passion. Identify what makes you unique in your organization by determining what you do that others cannot, leading to a more differentiated product. Transcript: Speaker 1 I'm not going to, I'm not going to relay it in precision, but one of the tactics that I've seen out there is basically go through your calendar for the last month or quarter, whatever it Is, write everything down and basically group them into. Speaker 2 I hated doing this. Speaker 1 I didn't love doing it, but it was fine. I love doing this. And then like, I love doing this. And if I could spend all my time on this, I would be the happiest person in the whole world and like literally categorize your, your, the way you're spending your time into those buckets. And then the, the bottom buckets away, just focus on that top bucket and go, how can I be here more? And often that is a true guide to where you're really, you're passionate is where you're special in expert pieces and where you're going to add a lot of value because you're highly engaged. I think the other thing is really asking yourself, and this maybe goes back to the career advice perspective, really asking yourself, what do I do that no one else in this organization Can do? There are lots of, you know, there are lots of things that I do that other people in the organization can do. But what are the things that I do that are, you know, you think about a differentiated product ([Time 0:19:34](https://share.snipd.com/snip/a152cd9a-1f62-4ae4-b22f-20cecf024006)) - Balancing Strategy with Execution and Maintaining Startup Focus in Larger Companies Summary: The key insights from the snip include the importance of balancing strategy and vision with diving into details to move things forward, the value of operating both horizontally and vertically to stay happy and effective, the concept of an energy audit to focus on tasks that give energy and minimize those that drain it, the significance of setting a fast pace and high quality standards within larger companies while maintaining a startup focus, and the approach of being hired to remind bigger companies they can operate like startups instead of teaching them to act like big corporations. Transcript: Speaker 1 And so yes, I love to be up here and think about strategy and vision, but I also like to drop into the details to move things forward. And I think that operating, you know, horizontally and then being able to spend some time in the vertical up and down, wherever that vertical up and down happens makes me quite happy. And I think I'm pretty good at it. Amazing. We're going to touch on some of these things you just mentioned, actually, but real quick, you mentioned this idea of essentially an energy audit. There's actually a really good guide that I'll point to in the show notes by Matt Moshari that walks you through how to do this. And we talk about this a bunch of this podcast, actually, this whole idea of just fine things that give you energy, do more of that. Fine things that's happy of energy, do less of that. Easier said than done when you have a job and you have to do stuff that people are paying you to do. But it's still really helpful if nothing else to help you point you where you want to be going in your career long term. Okay, so you mentioned you're a founder and it feels like you're like a founder at Hark, but you've been working at larger companies for a while now. And I hear that you're really good at setting a fast pace within larger companies and maintaining that startup focus while also having a very high bar for quality and product. Everybody wants this. Everyone's like, yes, move fast, amazing quality. That's what, why would we not want that? I'm curious just what you actually put into practice concretely that allow for you to build teams that move really fast and maintain a high bar. They're like processes you find helpful values ways of working. Yeah, it's really exciting. People often think that I get hired into the roles that I get hired into in later stage companies because I'm supposed to teach them how to operate like a big company. And in fact, I say I'm hired to remind them they can operate like a startup. And so I think about it completely differently. And there are kind of two things I think about in terms of pace and high bar. ([Time 0:21:38](https://share.snipd.com/snip/d4067a03-21d5-4efa-9d0e-c39ca6a0f698)) - Setting High Pace Expectations in Organizations Summary: Being mindful of the pace of recurring meetings and ensuring they do not dictate next steps. Setting expectations for a faster pace inside the organization by pushing for quicker decision-making and execution timelines. Establishing a personal Service Level Agreement to prevent being a bottleneck in the organization's progress. Transcript: Speaker 1 And so I think about it completely differently. And there are kind of two things I think about in terms of pace and high bar. From a pace, it's know what your internal pace is and essentially don't let it degrade to the pace of your recurring meetings. I often find that that pace of organization locks to pace of the calendar. And so I am really thoughtful that recurring meetings do not drive next steps. It's a very tactical thing. But when somebody says, oh, we'll discuss this or we'll decide this in the next meeting, it's no, we should discuss this now. We should decide this tomorrow. The other thing that I think about is setting one click faster pace expectations inside an organization. So I tend to come in and love this hate it. It's what I do, which is if I look at an organization that is operating at a lower pace than I would expect. I communicate to my leaders that my expectation is they bring in the clock speed one click faster, which means if you think something needs to be done this year, it needs to be done this Half. If you think it needs to be done this half needs to be done this quarter, this quarter, this month, this week today, like end of day in this meeting and actually setting an expectation That your natural pace is going to be slower than your ambition and being explicit about pulling things in. I think can change the way expectations are sent and honestly change the energy momentum in organization. The third thing on pace is personal SLA. I never want to be the bottleneck for the organization. ([Time 0:23:20](https://share.snipd.com/snip/1b4475ce-3f9f-4114-8c69-a1475da400b6)) - Set a Faster Pace with Explicit Expectations and Personal SLA Summary: Setting explicit expectations on pace of work, acknowledging natural pace versus ambition, and having a personal SLA to avoid bottlenecking decision-making processes can shift energy and momentum in the organization. Striving for a faster clock speed by being responsive, making quick decisions, and encouraging the team to move one iteration faster can enhance overall productivity and efficiency. Transcript: Speaker 1 If you think it needs to be done this half needs to be done this quarter, this quarter, this month, this week today, like end of day in this meeting and actually setting an expectation That your natural pace is going to be slower than your ambition and being explicit about pulling things in. I think can change the way expectations are sent and honestly change the energy momentum in organization. The third thing on pace is personal SLA. I never want to be the bottleneck for the organization. This is one of the more challenging things about being in my role is you were often a point of decision making tie breaking, next steps, approvals, socialization. If my personal SLA is slow, then the rest of my organization cannot be as fast as possible. I try to be fairly responsive. I try to say do both very high rate and also very quickly. It's really hard. Sometimes it's not totally possible, but it's a goal I have. I love this clock speed concept of just let's move one iteration faster than we would normally move. How do you actually do that? Is this just like you doing it and then everyone trickles down from the way you're approaching it? Is this like a principle on a team? Is there like a phrase used? Yeah, it's kind of a phrase I use and something I asked our leadership teams to do. ([Time 0:24:25](https://share.snipd.com/snip/14927384-ee73-44e7-bf2a-1f49803a70f3)) - Clarity and Kindness in Performance Management Summary: Performance management requires clear communication about expectations and performance. It is crucial to provide feedback in a direct and kind manner, outlining that success is the individual's responsibility. Constructive conversations can lead to significant improvement and growth, even transforming employees into influential managers within a short period. By clearly stating when expectations are not being met and that the current path is not conducive to success, individuals can understand the seriousness of the situation and work towards improvement. Transcript: Speaker 1 I do. And I, and I did. I believe these are very, very talented people who could operate. I believe you can operate differently, but it is your responsibility to do so. And I need to see change starting tomorrow. I wanted them to succeed. And in fact, they did it like snapped in. They got it. And one of the, you know, turned into one of the most influential, effective managers in our team over the course, probably the next six to nine months. And I think just clearly saying you are not meeting expectations. You will not be successful here. If you continue on this path, I believe you can get here, but it is your responsibility. That is the conversation that is clear and kind and honestly very effective in most instances. That's an amazing example. Clear as kind, as you said, it reminds me of Kim Scott, who's on the podcast, shared the story about Bob. I don't know if you remember that story at all. Just this guy at their company who was just doing a bad job and everyone knew he was doing a bad job, but then they had to fire him. And then he's just, when they're firing, he's just like, why didn't you tell me? Why didn't you tell me? Why didn't anyone tell me that I was doing? Nobody thought I was doing a great job. Speaker 2 Yeah. Speaker 1 Yeah. And I honestly think saying you are not doing ([Time 0:31:09](https://share.snipd.com/snip/b9e37898-df02-43c4-8084-dda1dda29bcd)) - Fostering Diverse Voices in Technology Leadership Summary: Providing platforms for diverse voices in technology helps the industry envision different types of leaders and roles, breaking embedded concepts of traditional leadership. By investing in and amplifying the voices of female founders and recognizing female CTOs, we can challenge the stereotypes of what a technology leader looks like and promote inclusivity in the tech industry. Transcript: Speaker 1 And so the more that you can provide platforms for diverse voices to talk about their journey in technology, expose that there are leaders out there that come from different backgrounds. Technically, culturally, all those things, the more the industry can imagine different types of leaders in different types of roles. And so, you know, I just want to see it more. I want to invest more and raise the voices of female founders. I want to call out their amazing female CTOs out there. All those things. And I think if you can see it, you can start to unlock these very, very embedded concepts of who is and is and is not a technology leader who is and is not technical. Awesome. I love that advice. It's something I try really hard to do with this podcast. This episode is brought to you by Vanta. ([Time 0:40:57](https://share.snipd.com/snip/adda44cf-66a4-4188-b0d5-32e88626e8c4)) - Scrappiness Leads to Success Summary: Being scrappy and resourceful is a key quality for founders and product managers. By demonstrating initiative and determination in a high-stakes situation, such as showcasing a product to a potential partner, opportunities for partnerships and acquisitions can arise. The ability to achieve a lot with limited resources and navigate obstacles with determination is an essential trait for success in entrepreneurship. Transcript: Speaker 1 So I called Microsoft and I said, hey, friend of Microsoft, I could be up in Seattle seeing our other customer, very large Seattle company. This week, week of experimentation day. Speaker 2 Could we stop by? Speaker 1 And they're like, oh, yeah, sure. Well, then I went to other, you know, other big Seattle companies that, hey, other big Seattle company. I'm going to be up visiting Microsoft at their experimentation day. Would you be so like, I got these two meetings to manifest against each other. And then I walked into that experimentation day and. I, I bought the CFO of Optimize Lee and I sat in front of him and started pulling up the product and coding at the same time. I was just like, I'm going to sit in front of him, row and I'm going to do this. We have my screens and then I went up and did a demo and I'm not saying that's the thing that made it happen. But I will say very quickly after that, we became very close partners and ultimately they, they acquired me. And I give this advice to founders because one of the things that it founders and PMs, one of the things that I really hire for is scrappiness. I think you have to be able to do a lot with a little and I think you have to know where you're getting and, you know, come hell or high water, figure out a way to get there. ([Time 0:44:07](https://share.snipd.com/snip/db29080e-92d3-4d20-8fb1-2eb8c9da99a2)) - Unified Leadership for Strategic Optimization Summary: Consolidating product, engineering, and design functions under a single leadership allows for optimization of the whole rather than individual functions, providing leverage to the CEO and streamlining R&D investment. This approach ensures alignment towards what is best for the organization, customers, and business, as well as enhances accountability by having a singularly responsible individual managing the investment across functions. Transcript: Speaker 1 There's the obvious strategic reason of like, they're all the same thing, right? They're all building capital P product. They're all builders. They're the same types of folks. They're all builders. And bringing them under one house allows you to optimize for the whole as opposed to optimize for the function. And if you can find a leader that is effective at that, I think you can get a lot of value out of it. And honestly, the second thing is it provides a tremendous amount of leverage to the CEO in many ways. At the end of the day, R&D is very expensive and complicated investment the company is making and having a single person responsible for R&D. And so the investment at the executive level is quite important, especially when you're candidly spending a lot there. And so I think it's those two things. It's these are one team. There should be there should be no debates over what's best for product or what's best for engineering, what's best for design. What is best for the organization at whole? What do our customers need and what do our business needs? And then it's the accountability, candidly of this quite meaningful investment against business objectives and having a single singularly responsible individual. To care for that investment. Hmm. Sounds wonderful. Having one person to deal with across all these functions. Yes, women isn't. I'll just say like I've done both, right? ([Time 0:49:29](https://share.snipd.com/snip/884fa324-55a4-42f7-9741-4eef68a299fc)) - Providing help in finding job fit companies Summary: The speaker expresses their passion for selling and helping people find job fit companies, which brings them a lot of joy and energy. They are open to helping individuals connect with companies or roles that suit them. The speaker can be contacted on LinkedIn or through their TikTok account. They recommend books like 'High Growth Handbook' and 'Scaling People' for providing solid playbook answers to common leadership and scaling questions within startups, making them valuable references for effective leadership. Transcript: Speaker 1 Great. Claire, is there anything else that you want to share or leave listeners with before we get to our very exciting lightning round? I will say, because we've been talking a lot about AI and replacing PMs, that, you know, I love to sell. I love to help people get jobs. So if there are ways that I can help people find great fit companies, it's one of the things that I get a lot of energy out of. So I just want to say that in the world it's something that sparks a lot of joy. I get a lot of inbound, you know, can you help me get in here? Can you help me get there? But if there's a tractable way that I can help you get to a connected to a company or a role that you think is great for you, like, that's fun for me and I'm totally open to it. How would people reach out to you to try to get, help you get them a gig? Yeah. So I am, I'm of course on LinkedIn. I'm on X at clear bow, all the word. And then if you really want to go into the archives, I have a very fabulous TikTok where I'm chief product officer. It's all one word. Amazing. So I'll link to all these in the show notes. Okay. And we'll refresh these two facts at the end of the podcast anyway, because I always ask this. Anyway, before we do that, welcome to our very exciting lighting round. Are you ready? I am so ready. Okay. First question. What are two or three books that you've recommended most to other people? High growth handbook, I love and I like scaling people. So these are two books that the reason why I recommend them to people is because they have solid playbook answers to like 80, 90% of kind of everyday leadership scaling people questions. And so they're just like great reference books for what I think like great leadership inside startups can look like and they solve some of the things that you don't need to solve novel, Novelly. ([Time 1:18:29](https://share.snipd.com/snip/dc79e8da-b625-4958-980a-9ef3300c1fa2)) - Understanding Business Model and Unit Economics in Product Management Summary: Successful product managers understand not just the product and target market, but also the underlying mechanisms of how the company generates revenue, its unit economics, and areas for improvement. A strong business model perspective is crucial, focusing on identifying market segments, pricing models, unit economics, and leverage points for better performance and profitability. A good answer reflects a comprehensive mental model for evaluating and enhancing the company's revenue generation and profitability. Transcript: Speaker 1 I think so many PMs come in with a point of view of like the product and the target market, but like don't actually understand the underlying mechanisms of how we make money and what our Unit economics are and how that could be improved and the candidates that do come in and have a strong point if you want business model often are pretty successful in my organization. And what do you look for in a good answer that's like, oh, wow, this is great. It's sort of thinking along the chain of value to from how do we identify people in the market? What is our pricing model look like? What could they hypothesize our underlying unit economics cogs are and then where are their points of leverage along that whole funnel? So it's really, do they have a mental model for thinking about a business model? Have they thought at all about how we make money, either top line or margin? And then can they identify places where they might improve it? Awesome. ([Time 1:21:34](https://share.snipd.com/snip/d18d5d94-f2b7-4342-b83c-a4e4653e9828)) - Embracing Autonomous Travel with Waymo Summary: The speaker highly praises the autonomous driving experience provided by Waymo, admiring its top-notch product and service quality. They express enthusiasm for the comfortable cars, pleasant sound design, and user-friendly app. The speaker values the exceptional customer service and efficient 24-hour support. Additionally, they highlight the convenience and excitement of using Waymo as their preferred mode of travel, considering it a glimpse into the future. The speaker also mentions their life motto of prioritizing fast decision-making and execution based on conviction, rather than endless deliberation. Transcript: Speaker 2 I am a big fan of my minivan. Speaker 1 As my friend says, it's like driving around your living room. And when you have two kids, you know what I want to do? I just want to drive around my living room, like bluey included. And so, you know, no Rivian, no Mercedes Benz, but I really love my Pacifica. I don't like it. The car is going to ask. But but the actual car product that I really love, I love Waymo. You know, we're in San Francisco. We've got these autonomous vehicles. It is top to bottom. Just a lovely product experience from the app to when it shows up. The sound design is great. The cars are comfortable. The displays in the car are great. Like it is now every time a tourist comes in, a friend comes in to visit San Francisco and make them take a round trip ride in the robot car. So and then even I've had a customer service experience with the Waymo team where my friend left an iPhone. And the very customer experience was great. 24 hour service like top to bottom. Great product design, great service design. I just got into Waymo actually in the wait list. And so I'm excited to actually try it. I was actually treated as press early on to ride in a Waymo with like a person from the company, just experience it. And then I never got access to it after. So now I finally can try it. Enjoy. It's so nice. It's my preferred mode of travel. A future. We've talked about a lot of ways that the world is changing. That's another great example. Two questions to go. Do you have a favorite life motto that you often come back to share with friends or family that you find useful in work or in life? Fast speeds, right. Like every time when debating between, do I like noodle this for a thousand years and try to come to the perfect solution? Or do I make a decision and get executing a direction I have conviction on? ([Time 1:22:49](https://share.snipd.com/snip/22b78d48-2c06-41b4-9eee-a2be7d24cc73)) - Embrace Fast Speeds to Succeed Summary: Embrace fast speeds to excel in decision-making and execution rather than getting stuck in overthinking. The speaker praises Waymo for its exceptional customer service and product design, expressing excitement to try it. The speaker values efficiency and quick action in work and life, believing that decisiveness and conviction lead to success. The speaker also highlights the changing world and the significance of adapting to future technologies like autonomous vehicles. Transcript: Speaker 1 Like it is now every time a tourist comes in, a friend comes in to visit San Francisco and make them take a round trip ride in the robot car. So and then even I've had a customer service experience with the Waymo team where my friend left an iPhone. And the very customer experience was great. 24 hour service like top to bottom. Great product design, great service design. I just got into Waymo actually in the wait list. And so I'm excited to actually try it. I was actually treated as press early on to ride in a Waymo with like a person from the company, just experience it. And then I never got access to it after. So now I finally can try it. Enjoy. It's so nice. It's my preferred mode of travel. A future. We've talked about a lot of ways that the world is changing. That's another great example. Two questions to go. Do you have a favorite life motto that you often come back to share with friends or family that you find useful in work or in life? Fast speeds, right. Like every time when debating between, do I like noodle this for a thousand years and try to come to the perfect solution? Or do I make a decision and get executing a direction I have conviction on? I always consistently see and believe that fast at the end of the day and the end of the day wins. So fast speeds, right? Final question. You mentioned TikTok. ([Time 1:23:29](https://share.snipd.com/snip/27c68de1-d8c7-4a25-90bf-aabe4be72f05)) - Fast Decisions and Consistency for Success on TikTok Summary: Making fast decisions and taking quick actions leads to success. Consistency in posting on TikTok drives audience growth and engagement. Viewing content creation as documentation rather than creative generation is a valuable approach for creators of any scale. Transcript: Speaker 1 Fast speeds, right. Like every time when debating between, do I like noodle this for a thousand years and try to come to the perfect solution? Or do I make a decision and get executing a direction I have conviction on? I always consistently see and believe that fast at the end of the day and the end of the day wins. So fast speeds, right? Final question. You mentioned TikTok. You put a bunch of awesome content out on TikTok. Any advice slash is there a tip you could share with someone that is trying to be successful on TikTok from your experience? I've been neglecting my TikTok for a little bit with new job and winter with sick kids. Speaker 2 This is my advice. Speaker 1 And I think you know this. Consistency drives audience growth, which is when I was on TikTok posting every day, you would get followers and engagement and the algorithm would, you know, bless you. And when you don't, you don't. So I think consistency in almost all things wins. The other thing that I think is a really good advice for any quote unquote creator of whatever scale, of whatever ambition is I think thinking about content creation as documentation, Not creative generation is really helpful. So I just like to talk about what I think about it work. ([Time 1:24:26](https://share.snipd.com/snip/87c553e2-4c30-4f70-9858-c48af9784e52)) - Consistency and Documentation in Content Creation Summary: Consistency is key in driving audience growth as it impacts follower count and engagement positively. Treating content creation as documentation rather than creative generation helps in maintaining a natural flow of content. By documenting thoughts and interactions, a creator can create content effortlessly, resulting in successful outcomes in their free time. Transcript: Speaker 1 And I think you know this. Consistency drives audience growth, which is when I was on TikTok posting every day, you would get followers and engagement and the algorithm would, you know, bless you. And when you don't, you don't. So I think consistency in almost all things wins. The other thing that I think is a really good advice for any quote unquote creator of whatever scale, of whatever ambition is I think thinking about content creation as documentation, Not creative generation is really helpful. So I just like to talk about what I think about it work. And I like to an interesting meeting or interesting interaction document why I thought that was interesting or what could be done better. And that becomes the basis of a very natural flow of content for me. So it's a tactic that's worked really well for me and helps me do stuff in my free time. ([Time 1:25:10](https://share.snipd.com/snip/beda4897-ea29-4c40-ab63-eab5f3a3495a))