# 8: Steph Ango - Tools for Amplifying Our Light ! [ rw-book-cover] (https://wsrv.nl/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fd3t3ozftmdmh3i.cloudfront.net%2Fstaging%2Fpodcast_uploaded_nologo%2F42451982%2F42451982-1738083596897-49fb053724309.jpg&w=100&h=100) URL: https://share.snipd.com/episode/88b8e1bc-8a0c-4f6e-9433-925a695f5656 Author: Dialectic  ## AI-Generated Summary None ## Highlights > **Long-Term View** > - Consider the long-term impacts of your decisions, both past and future. > - Ask yourself how people have historically approached similar situations and what's likely to endure. > Transcript: > Steph Ango > Yeah i guess i'd say most people have a really short time horizon and i have i try to have the longest possible time horizon i can in both directions. Like we've been talking about it in the scheme of like thousands of years, both going like looking back and forward. Like how do we you know, we're talking about hieroglyphics and we're talking about, you know, needs that people have had for thousands of years in the past, like listening to music and Feeding themselves and, you know, sitting on a chair. And we're talking about how, what will people remember of what we are doing right now in a thousand years from now? Obviously, you know, your lifespan is short in that, but I think that having a very long-term view of everything, you know, unless you intentionally are choosing to have a short-term View and say, like, I'm choosing to, like, make this decision, you know, right now and I only care about it for the next one day, that's fine. But I think there's almost never a case where thinking about the impacts of that decision for the next 10 or 30 years really harms things that much. So I try to do that. I try to think, how have people been doing this particular thing for a long time and what is likely ([Time 1:57:16](https://share.snipd.com/snip/cb6d4d36-cf87-42e9-bd42-dbf816696ff1)) > **Selfishness** > - Steph Ango believes people should be more selfish by prioritizing their long-term interests. > - This long-term "selfishness" can actually benefit society, like drivers avoiding crashes out of self-interest. > Transcript: > Steph Ango > I care way more about having like that fine grained like what what some would call micromanaging is no longer micromanaging if there's no one to manage it's just doing the thing um and I prefer to do it than micromanage someone who's trying to do it with my like you know breathing down their neck the whole time yeah so so i think that the kinds of things that i like to invest In are having i feel so selfish talking about these things like it's so interesting because like this conversation has really been about like selfishness in a certain way and i think Most people should be more selfish um because like this is this is the great thing about emergence like like societies democracy things work because people are making the reason you Can drive down the street at or down the freeway at 100 miles an hour and like not crash into someone is because everyone is being selfish. Like, nobody wants to crash into each other. And, like, it's marvelous, like, that you, like, are driving so quickly past someone who's equally driving at, like, the same speed in the opposite direction. And, like, the number of car crashes are so few. And that's completely driven by self-interest. And so I think that people probably would make better decisions by having a long-term, like a more selfish long-term view of what they're going to want 10 or 100 years from now. > Jackson Dahl > And... But that, by the way, that speaks to selfishness in the stadium of selves sense. Yeah. Because I think people are selfish, but they are selfish in a way that is Jackson. The Jackson of today is the ruler of the arena and screw everybody else. Yeah. And then on top of that, I think the other thing that's interesting to me is it made me think of is people, most people experience the world as sort of like out in. ([Time 2:00:07](https://share.snipd.com/snip/9a24d957-cb12-4ddd-88c0-d9039dbbb0fa)) > **Supplying Our Own Light** > - Steph Ango reflects on a time he felt depressed and lacked the skills to pursue his goals. > - He shares a Stanley Kubrick quote: "However vast the darkness, we must supply our own light," emphasizing the importance of self-reliance in a seemingly uncaring universe. > Transcript: > Steph Ango > Is that is like honestly i might shed a tear. Like, you know, there was a time like, you know, 10, 12 years ago where I was like really depressed. And I was like really struggling with these things. I didn't feel like I had the skills to do what I wanted. I was kind of stuck in a place doing work that I didn't enjoy. And there was a point where I saw this quote by Stanley Kubrick, which I can send to you. I can't kind of explain it or like read it, like memorize the whole thing. But the kind of nugget is, however vast the darkness, we must supply our own light ([Time 2:02:24](https://share.snipd.com/snip/7f557801-a7c1-4c9c-a7e1-5f00b9ab58a7)) > **Focus on Your Inner Light** > - Focus on your inner light and let it radiate outwards. > - Cultivate your curiosity and follow your passions, as they will guide you. > Transcript: > Steph Ango > But if you do like exactly what you were saying and think about taking care of this, like a little flame that's inside of you and like focusing on making that radiate out towards the rest Of the world, then you can, that's something you can control. You can't control like how people are going to feel, whether you're going to have a job tomorrow, you know, how the world is going to change. You probably, you know, you don't have much control over those things, but you can control this like little light inside of you and try to take care of it and try to figure out what it is, What it's interested in and kind of like let it grow. And if you try to learn about that thing inside of you, it will teach you about what you should invest in because you have interests, you have passions, you can't explain them, but there's Things that make you curious. And if you just like let that curiosity, you know, grow and you go down that weird rabbit hole, maybe it'll lead to nothing, but maybe it will be a ([Time 2:03:28](https://share.snipd.com/snip/645588fd-6c98-4cff-9530-d17a2c75e4fc)) > **Choosing Problems** > - Choose the biggest problem you're capable of solving. > - Work on things that are important. > Transcript: > Jackson Dahl > Will happen. Yeah, maybe it turns into a bonfire. Yeah. You've written, just one double click on this, you've written about choosing problems. Oh, yeah. I so agree with everything you just said, but you also care about a lot of things, and you're really capable. > Steph Ango > I don't care about that many things. Okay. > Jackson Dahl > Well, within that, you at least could work on a lot of things in lots of different mediums and disciplines. Maybe since you wrote that piece, I'm curious, are there any revisions on either the advice you gave? And or just like you chose to work on obsidian with a really meaningful amount of your time you have this line actually specifically i think is people work on things that aren't important The problem you should solve is the biggest problem you are capable of solving boy this is an old essay i don't even know if ([Time 2:05:52](https://share.snipd.com/snip/6416137b-6ec0-4c53-bdf8-222f94622011)) > **Find Friction, Make Tools** > - Notice points of friction in your own life and create tools to reduce it. > - This personal problem-solving can lead to valuable tools for others. > Transcript: > Steph Ango > And my unique ability in the world is somehow noticing where there's friction and making a tool that like reduces that friction and i'm pretty good at doing that and so now when i go down A rabbit hole i'm not necessarily thinking wow this could be a great opportunity to make a tool most of the time i'm just trying to do the thing that i'm trying to do um and then i'm like oh Wait a. This could be a tool. But for other people, you know, that's my little flame inside. It's like, what tool can I make for myself to help me solve this problem? And maybe other people will find that useful. But for other people, it's something totally different. And I don't know what that is for whoever's listening to this, but that's the thing to nurture. > Jackson Dahl > You have this, a little bit, so on the investment theme, you have this essay, Nibble and Your Appetite Will Grow. Oh yeah, that's it. Which feels a bit like what you were just describing. It's this French phrase that I'm surely going to butcher, but la petite vient en mangeant. > Steph Ango > La petite vient en mangeant. > Jackson Dahl > Thank you. Appetite comes when you eat and yeah to me this feels like maybe the seed this idea that perhaps the inspiration we need is on the other side of starting or going down that rabbit hole yeah > Steph Ango > Man this is this ([Time 2:08:18](https://share.snipd.com/snip/75f91e4b-e9d8-47a1-8ab7-7b4f380a7756)) > **Nurturing Curiosity** > - Exercise the muscle of curiosity. > - If something sparks your interest, nibble at it; your appetite will grow if it's enjoyable. > Transcript: > Steph Ango > Maybe that's just how I am, but I think that there's value in like exercising that muscle of curiosity because the only thing you need is that initial spark of curiosity. And so what Nibble and Your Appetite grow is talking about is just if you see something that you're curious about just go nibble at it and see if it's enjoyable to you and then just and you'll If it is you'll your appetite will grow so that could apply to anything exercise is a really good one. There's another essay that's related that I wrote about just, I forget what the title of it was. It's about showing up in the smallest way possible, right? Yeah, like lower the bar as much as possible. One push-up. Dude, just do one push-up, right? > Jackson Dahl > It's amazing how one push-up, you can't get on, once you're on the ground prone, assuming you have the ability, it's really hard to only do one pushup. ([Time 2:10:30](https://share.snipd.com/snip/3436f0ad-1ca0-4244-96c9-987299f3c758)) > **Lower the Bar** > - Lower the bar for your goals as much as possible to overcome inertia. > - For example, commit to just one push-up a day. > Transcript: > Steph Ango > It's about showing up in the smallest way possible, right? Yeah, like lower the bar as much as possible. One push-up. Dude, just do one push-up, right? > Jackson Dahl > It's amazing how one push-up, you can't get on, once you're on the ground prone, assuming you have the ability, it's really hard to only do one pushup. > Steph Ango > And I think this is like a very classic, like New Year's resolutions. People are like, you know, coming up with all these new goals for themselves and they're like, I'm going to run a marathon. Yeah. I'm going to do this or that. And it's like the way that you start from like having done nothing to running a marathon is like somehow you got to run one step so like and the activation energy if you can lower that activation Energy somehow is the the most important thing so if you can just like literally what do one push-up one sprint down the driveway one whatever it is um and you do that every single day then Eventually you'll be like i've been doing one push-up i honestly i no one could do one push-up every day for 30 days that no like that would be remarkable if someone actually managed to Do only one push-up a day yeah like within three days you're gonna be like this is stupid. I can do five pushups. > Jackson Dahl > Also, you get to feel compounding. This is the this is the one question I had is like, where where have you compounded most? Clearly the curiosity and frankly, like the meta nature of this. ([Time 2:11:16](https://share.snipd.com/snip/50815894-a41b-4bc9-b822-4fa692168b56)) > **Compounding Value** > - Compounding value requires more than just selling your time. > - Creating artifacts like podcasts or writing allows your work to continue generating value even when you're not actively working. > Transcript: > Steph Ango > Like if you're if the only way that you make money or get value or like somehow, you know, earn something, earn wealth in the world is by selling your time or some version of that. The only way that you get, you will never compound. You cannot compound by like selling an hour of your time. ([Time 2:18:32](https://share.snipd.com/snip/82ee8bea-665d-4dec-bc21-4c1530300578)) > **Compounding Value** > - Compounding isn't about daily effort, but creating something once that generates value repeatedly. > - Examples include podcasts, writing, and software, where the initial creation continues to work for you. > Transcript: > Steph Ango > I mean, you compound in the sense that maybe along the way you build some kind of like abstractions and tools and stuff. But basically things like, you know, writing or sharing these artifacts, whether they be artistic or, again, like software is a great example because you can make it once and then a Million people can download it at no extra cost. Those types of things are really powerful. Or, I mean, you know, my previous company was, like, completely in the world of bits. And it was, like, what are the compounding effects? We figured out, you know, factories are, like, compounding machines. They figure out how to, like, make something at scale. And then, yes, of course, they have, like, material costs that we don't have in the software world, but they have a machine that can spit out a million of something. And so you want to figure out how to build a little machine where once you build it once, infinity number of times that thing can be used. > Jackson Dahl > On the exact opposite end of the spectrum, meaning the lowest sort of efficiency thing possible, you've written about caloric energy and why it's precious. Oh, yeah. You say electric energy gives us the freedom to choose how we use caloric energy because caloric energy is precious. This notion that increasingly we're automating everything else. Electric energy for a long time was doing a lot of things that we might need to do physically. And ([Time 2:18:52](https://share.snipd.com/snip/c03d5d94-53f9-4e0d-ad23-510c9b1bb09f)) > **Caloric Energy** > - The Industrial Revolution mechanized physical labor, freeing up caloric energy. > - Similarly, computers are now mechanizing tedious mental tasks, allowing our caloric energy to serve more interesting needs. > Transcript: > Steph Ango > You know, the point of Caloric Energy is Precious was just saying how, you know, with the Industrial Revolution, we figured out how to take like what muscles can do and turn them into Machines. And now we're doing the same with intelligence. Like we're taking things that are very tedious to do with our mind and allowing a computer to do it, which means like a computer doesn't have ([Time 2:22:24](https://share.snipd.com/snip/30ba3913-d0f4-41c7-ad33-dea6fc5d060f)) > **Steph Cooks** > - Steph Ango enjoys cooking and chooses to spend his energy making meals from scratch, even though he could easily buy pre-made meals or hire someone to cook. > - He sees this as an example of choosing where to put your energy, as opposed to delegating everything. > Transcript: > Steph Ango > Article is that we're constantly allowing ourselves to delegate efforts that were previously like required our own, you know, manual labor. I still love to i like to slice vegetables and make my own stew you know like and i'm choosing to use my caloric energy to do that even though i could buy a ready-made meal i could hire somebody To fix the stove i could do everything i could let you know i could i could pay for any part of like making a meal but I probably cook 90% of all my meals, and I love putting in my caloric energy To make my own calories. But I don't think that's necessarily what everyone should do. The point of the article is about the freedom that it provides and to think about what are the things that you actually don't really care about that you could be delegating. And the number of things that you could be delegating are becoming greater. It's kind of like the antithesis of the parasite point. It's sort of saying, I mean, for me right now, I've been learning. Put out more like side projects than ever before mostly because I don't really care about the quality of the code with that and I'm just using the new like AI stuff so much and I have a really Good sense of what I want out of the the tool like these like random little piano things and I I've gotten pretty good at leveraging those tools to write code. ([Time 2:23:46](https://share.snipd.com/snip/0c947306-b3c6-4031-a4c1-c3eca16b8565)) > **Sentient Earth** > - Earth is developing senses, intelligence, and will, like a planet-sized being. > - Humans are cells within this larger superintelligence, contributing to its growth. > Transcript: > Jackson Dahl > Why earth is becoming sentient. It's a bit long-winded, but I thought it would be worth reading a few excerpts of this, although I think people should read the whole thing. You say, Earth is not a vehicle, but a body, the body of a planet-sized being that is developing senses and intelligence, a will, and even the ability to reproduce. We are cells building this body and maintaining it. The Earth's mind is emerging, ([Time 2:26:34](https://share.snipd.com/snip/f0973285-5bce-4e83-b685-11400d50faa2)) > **Sentient Earth** > - Earth is developing senses, intelligence, and a will, like a planet-sized being undergoing mitosis, and humans are cells within this superorganism. > - With rockets, we are providing Earth with spores so it can reproduce. > Transcript: > Jackson Dahl > Why earth is becoming sentient. It's a bit long-winded, but I thought it would be worth reading a few excerpts of this, although I think people should read the whole thing. You say, Earth is not a vehicle, but a body, the body of a planet-sized being that is developing senses and intelligence, a will, and even the ability to reproduce. We are cells building this body and maintaining it. The Earth's mind is emerging, in mind in quotations, and then invert the theocentric view that artificial intelligence is the coming of a god, a superintelligence inside the machine. Rather, humans are inside the superintelligence. We are inside the earth-sized machine. This super-complex, super-intelligent superorganism will not try to destroy us for the same reason that no human wants to destroy their own blood. And then there's one more bit of it in another excerpt from your essay, that really old one on chaos that I thought were interesting to pair together, especially in this moment where There's lots of question about what it is that we're doing and whether or not we should be building this and whether it's going to be good for the world or bad for the world or what it means To be human. And I was curious to pair them together. The last paragraph from Earth is Becoming Sentient, you say, Earth has inherited what all living things share, the elan vital, I'm sure I'm pronouncing it wrong, vital, The will to Live, the abhorrence of vacuum. Earth is imbued with the desire to spread, and we are watching it undergo its first mitosis. ([Time 2:26:34](https://share.snipd.com/snip/a335e8b2-06fa-4d28-b22c-81d4403c1f72)) > **AI's Selfishness** > - Steph Ango believes in the concept of emergence, where complex systems arise from simple things following simple rules. > - He questions why AI, a product of this emergent process, would want to destroy the system that sustains it. > Transcript: > Steph Ango > And I do think it, in a way it comes back to the point about selfishness that I was making, which is that I'm a big believer in the concept of emergence, which is just like complex systems Come from like simple things, doing simple things within a simple set of rules. Like your blood cells, you know, are governed by relatively simple rules and they're like just doing a function in your body. ([Time 2:30:30](https://share.snipd.com/snip/b38dee4d-595c-4e57-9abe-d4597be7ab6e)) > **Humans Essential to Nature** > - Humans are essential for the complexification of nature, similar to how blood cells or mitochondria are vital for organisms. > - We will likely continue to evolve and play a significant role in this process. > Transcript: > Steph Ango > But it doesn't mean we're insignificant. No. I mean, do you think blood cells are insignificant? Exactly. Or like mitochondria? Like the mitochondria is like one of the most successful things that's ever been invented it's like amazing and nobody not any creature in the universe wants to or like in on earth wants To not have mitochondria yeah so i think it's very optimistic for humans because we're essential to this like complexification of nature and we will probably keep keep going and i i Don't i don't have too many fears about our self like self-destruction have you read a the beginning of infinity by david deutsch uh no but i have listened to quite a few of his podcasts Yeah i think he's fascinating he ([Time 2:35:12](https://share.snipd.com/snip/f5e03db2-e664-40dd-b54d-c164abb70d24)) > **Thinking Earth vs. Spaceship Earth** > - Steph Ango prefers the term "Thinking Earth" over Buckminster Fuller's "Spaceship Earth". > - He feels "Spaceship Earth" implies a vehicle separate from us, while "Thinking Earth" suggests a living body we are part of and actively shaping. > Transcript: > Steph Ango > Yeah, the Spaceship Earth idea, that's from Buckminster Fuller and i heard about that he was very influential to me when i was like first studying design and when i when i heard that that Was like a like a mind worm that like it's just like i could never unhear the phrase spaceship earth and but the more i thought about it that's why i came up with the word thinking earth it's Like spaceship and implies it's like a vehicle. It's a vessel that's empty. That's my list. Well, I'm open to different interpretations of the word vehicle. But like spaceship is like, you know, we're either on the spaceship or in the spaceship. We're like traveling with the spaceship. How did the spaceship come about? And I think what you're saying that resonates with the kind of like thinking earth is more like, yeah, it's not a vehicle, but a body. It is like, okay, we have, you know, we're growing on top of it, like a moss or something like that. And like, we are like shaping it. We're digging holes into it. We're like starting to put out spores around it. Like this thing that was just barren rock is like, you know, a moldy piece of cheese in your fridge. Like you like you find this thing and you're like, oh, God, this thing is like alive now. And and, you know, you zoom out and like it looks like a Petri dish that is like starting to grow with stuff on it. It will spread because like that's that's the nature abhors a vacuum kind of idea it wants to spread and we're like literally building the spores to ([Time 2:37:37](https://share.snipd.com/snip/7783f079-ebbf-42f4-a738-03afe3e382f3)) > **Keep Running** > - Steph Ango intentionally makes his work easy to copy and open-sources it. > - This forces his curiosity and prevents him from becoming complacent, pushing him to constantly create and innovate. > Transcript: > Jackson Dahl > You're, you're, to those past selves. The question that came to me in thinking about this is what, and maybe is similar to the compounding question, but what do you think is most important to hold on to? Hmm. > Steph Ango > You know, I think I wrote that essay. It was, yeah, it's pretty old. It was, um, I was working on this product at the time, like it too long to explain, but basically it was like a physical product and we were so, uh, ruthlessly copied. Like, you know, a company basically just like completely ripped us off and everything that I had been working on for years was ripped off and I felt so frustrated. And then I really changed my outlook on it. I just kind of like went through that pain is information process. And I've been the stuff that I've done over the years has been copied so many more times since then. It's a nice reminder of just not I don't feel bad about that at all like I did back then. In fact i kind of try to make things easy for people to copy i've open sourced a lot more of my stuff over the years even old stuff that wasn't started open source i ended up like sharing completely It's like that idea of like dropping meat behind you like like is a compelling force to basically like push you forward because like yes just keep giving everything away is a mechanism To force my own curiosity because yeah because i don't i don't want to rest on my lauras i don't want to stay stuck in my old place so if i just keep feeding these ravenous dogs behind me um Then that's gonna force me to keep running and if I stop doing that then I'm like not maybe ([Time 2:40:21](https://share.snipd.com/snip/b40ee087-22cf-4c58-9884-0ec9b81c0ff6)) > 1min Snip > Transcript: > Steph Ango > You know, I think I wrote that essay. It was, yeah, it's pretty old. It was, um, I was working on this product at the time, like it too long to explain, but basically it was like a physical product and we were so, uh, ruthlessly copied. Like, you know, a company basically just like completely ripped us off and everything that I had been working on for years was ripped off and I felt so frustrated. And then I really changed my outlook on it. I just kind of like went through that pain is information process. And I've been the stuff that I've done over the years has been copied so many more times since then. It's a nice reminder of just not I don't feel bad about that at all like I did back then. In fact i kind of try to make things easy for people to copy i've open sourced a lot more of my stuff over the years even old stuff that wasn't started open source i ended up like sharing completely It's like that idea of like dropping meat behind you like like is a compelling force to basically like push you forward because like yes just keep giving everything away ([Time 2:40:37](https://share.snipd.com/snip/121298f4-c30c-4351-b364-0a9641a1ca89)) > **Finding a Partner** > - Have high standards for a partner and don't settle. > - Don't settle for less than you deserve in a relationship. > Transcript: > Steph Ango > Yeah. I guess the only advice is just to have high standards and to, like, keep yourself to that standard because, and to not settle, I suppose. > Jackson Dahl > Well, you care a lot and you show up in the world in very specific ways, which I think helps. > Steph Ango > Yeah, but maybe that's, that's not how we found each other. But, you know, it could be. You know, I think that definitely helps to kind of increase increasing your surface area as a human being that like people can ([Time 2:45:21](https://share.snipd.com/snip/8961dc05-4938-44b3-acae-222ed26fdc55))